Comming up with what to play on the spot...

**Kurt R** · March 17th, 2004, 03:56 AM

I've been playing for a little bit now and I always have trouble with just going t the music store and jamming. I always come up blank. I'm pretty young (16) and playing for maybe 6 years. I can never come up with grooves or anything to play on the spot. Any ideas for me? Anything I should read or listen? I can read music if you where wondering....thanks

-Kurt

**peter c** · March 17th, 2004, 04:20 PM

Kurt,

When you find yourself in the "jamming"
situation, what is usually played?

Ideas that are 'stable', flow very
easily. They have to be 'stable',
though. In other words, you have to
have played them a LOT.

I think you need to play in group
situations more and also could use
playing with just music, as in the
play-along experience.

No biggy...

[img]cool.gif[/img]

**buga** · March 17th, 2004, 06:25 PM

Just close your eyes and try to think of something positive that you can fall back on. When "improvising" or trying to come up with something on the spot as you say I try to play against a *melodic motif*(say "Autumn Leaves" or "Giant Steps" for example, or something more modern hiy/popular, check the stuff on Nelly Furtado's last album, it's programmed drums, but very kick ass, her vocal phrasing is VERY cool '"Turn of the Lights", it's my #1 Play Along right now!).

Just lay it down, keeping in mind what the other band members or what the music gives me in other words. Sometimes you have to let it "breath" and sometimes you gotta know when to push it so it doesn't become stagnant. It's a matter of inspiration, it's either the music or the crowd that will inspire you. The best moments in music for me are when I can close my eyes and just play and feel the music rushing through me and not think about where I'm going, just letting things flow and go where they're going to go, when I can throw away everything I've learned and just be "in the moment", when the music is playing the band and you're all on the same page so to speak. It's important to have facility on your instrument('technique') but it's also MORE CRUCIAL TO BE MUSICAL. Listen to the greats, take out small phrases/stickings and transcribe them, and listen to how they play every single note and in the context that they're played. That's the key man. Put away your tabs of other people's shit, and transcribe it yourself. Then study what you've transcribed, rhythmically, why does something work. When you improvise you're really making a connection, and the music that comes out is a way of really expressing yourself. Don't forget rhythm and phrasing! Placement of the note is as important to me as the note itself. You can still be really creative with rhythms even when your choice of notes is bland or say, less than revolutionary.

But in the general sense, when improvising you're responding to the music. People have trouble improvising when they try to cram in their favorite licks, or cruise along clumsily until they find an opening for those licks. But I think to get new things out of yourself, you have to leave the pre-planning process behind and be totally open to what the music is ASKING you for. The favorite licks will still crop up if appropriate.

Most of the answers are in you in the end. The only thing you're going to get from books is additional supplementary insight and direction. The vast majority of it is your ears, your hands, and your brain, and whatever intangibles make you different from me, or anyone else. Anyone who tells you the answers are in a book, is trying to sell a book.

Anyways, I am way out of my depth and I know it so I figure I'd just spit out some stuff as I perceive it! [img]wink.gif[/img]

[ March 17, 2004 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]

**FuseU1** · March 17th, 2004, 06:43 PM

I used to have this very problem in my developmental stages, esp when i came out of the standard basic rock stage & into the progressive-rock, then fusion & straight-ahead jazz thing...
[in reality, I am actually still developing; that's a never-ending process/'work in progress']...

Practice grooves to a click of some sort or drum machine constantly. Listen to the greats - JRRobinson, Gadd, Vega, Keltner, Porcaro, & of course, Weckl, Vinnie, Chambers, Erskine, Garibaldi, Todesco, on & on, the list can be quite large, but pick a few that 'picque' your interests...check out their accompaniment, pocket/grooves...get written material on grooves, & work hard on getting them down [AKA "PRACTICE" [img]wink.gif[/img] ]...listen to AS MUCH OF the greats playing the musical styles that you are interested in as you have the time for...listen to the other instruments besides the drums AW, & hear what they are doing in relation to the beat/groove...& if at all possible [financially, etc], get lessons from a local guy whom you respect...

Practice nothing but grooves...whether funk, jazz-rock-fusion, pop, rock [including metal], prog-rock, motown/neo- soul, R&B & blues, reggae/ska/calypso, drum n bass, etc...once you master grooves that you take a liking to, you will eventually branch out into other styles of grooves...Bozzio, Peter C, & Steve H, AWA the other great posters here will have good advice & philosophy on the art of the process...be patient with yourself...groove/pocket/time first; licks will come, so don't worry about that...once you've mastered certain grooves, 'little twists'/'flourishes'/permutations in it will start to come into your mind & you can work on those AW...practice your rudiments, & other stickings such as the George Lawrence Stone book...just alot your time appropriately & have a self-learning plan or format in mind...just take the styles you feel comfortable listening to & playing along with right now, & work on some of those...don't worry about trying to play in front of other peeps at the music store [this may be a whole other mental dynamic - playing in front of gatherings]...concern yourself with having something to say' for whatever musical style you are endeavoring in...then when you sit down at the kit, you will have no trouble coming up with grooves & in having the confidence to pull them off...remember, serve the music first & your bandmates second, & everything else will fall into place...remember once agin; be patient with yourself, & focus...you're only 16; you have your whole life ahead of you! You have it by the "horns," even if you don't realize it yet [img]wink.gif[/img] ...sorry if these thoughts appear to be cliched or vague; as I'm not precisely sure as to your level, but by your post I have some idea of "where you're coming from"....just trying to help out a little bit.... [img]cool.gif[/img]

[ March 17, 2004 03:59 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]

**harmonized** · March 18th, 2004, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Kurt R:
I've been playing for a little bit now and I always have trouble with just going t the music store and jamming. I always come up blank. I'm pretty young (16) and playing for maybe 6 years. I can never come up with grooves or anything to play on the spot. Any ideas for me? Anything I should read or listen? I can read music if you where wondering....thanks

-Kurt

The people above gave very informative information that you should heed. Developing a vocabulary on the drumset is important for self-expression.

With that said,

DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT sit at a drumset in a music store and blow through all your chops for god sake. This annoys even the most laid-back drummer/percussionist. Maybe, a big MAYBE, play a little on the electronic sets with the HEADPHONES only. But keep in to a bare minimum because we can still hear the sticks thudding against the plastic pads. Also, the bass drum pedal is usually squeeking.

The music store is not a concert. Practice being the next Vinnie in your basement. Work hard, but do in the basement. When you are ready to buy a drumset, by all means, play the kit a little to sound it out.

If you MUST play, please know this. All us drummers have heard your chops already.....a zillion times over....probably not breaking any new ground while you are bashing that new 18" Zildjian Steve Gadd Ride. Don't get me wrong, if you are Buddy Donati Colauita III and are some prodigy, god bless your heart. Chances are, you are not. You'll know things are bad when after playing your hot licks, the drum room clerk with the noose around his neck is begging one of the customers to kick out the chair from underneath him. Be real. Be real cool and don't do this to us. Please.

Time tested advice from your Uncle "Harmon".

Not get practicing......

....in the woodshed, not at "Sticks Magoo's Drum Felts and Brushes Palace".

Thank you.

**Kurt R** · March 18th, 2004, 01:21 AM

Don't worry about me going to the music store and just try to bust my chops. Most of my friends(which are pretty good and play loud as hell) ALWAYS get kicked out of sam ash then are pissed cuz they get kicked out...go figure. Sometimes I'll go into the inclosed cymbal room where theirs a electro set and putz around. I just said music store because pretty much anytime I'm in a "shed" or playing I always go blank. I thought of giving tradish grip today w/ some nelly Nelly Furtado and wooooo I got some major burn on my finger beside my pinkey. Im ok with it but can't do much fast tom stuff yet.....I'm gonna really start getting some grooves really solid. Thanks everybody!

**FuseU1** · March 18th, 2004, 01:40 AM

harmon-

The music store is not a concert. Practice being the next Vinnie in your basement. Work hard, but do in the basement. When you are ready to buy a drumset, by all means, play the kit a little to sound it out.

If you MUST play, please know this. All us drummers have heard your chops already.....a zillion times over....probably not breaking any new ground while you are bashing that new 18" Zildjian Steve Gadd Ride. Don't get me wrong, if you are Buddy Donati Colauita III and are some prodigy, god bless your heart.

...& that is another aspect of it that i 4got 2 mention.
& you know what's about as bad as a youngster going into the store wanting everyone to know that they play the drums [especially the "chicks"]?
An extremely accomplished drummer blowing for a long time in a drum store...real sign of needing the old ego stroked, usually...
I learned a valuable lesson many ages ago as a result of doing this [because i had no outlet for all that practicing & thought it would be "fun;" yeah, 4 ME maybe; until...]...this local popular bad asp fusion cat [unbeknownst to me at the time] came in, listened a while to me, said, "that's great, man," & then proceeded to do everything i was doing [on dbl-pedal] with just 1 kick...then, i went to see him live as a result, & really became embarrassed to myself when i saw him play with the band he was in... he was a real jazz/latin/funk/blues/rock/top 40/reggae stylistic monster...set me straight 4-eva', pal...i was blowin chops at the local store; HE was making music [with incredible technique] with his band...it was a valuable lesson, tho, because i went & practiced harder [at HOME];=)...& i eventually saved up enough $ to buy that elect kit i wanted so desperately, in order to practice in [relative] quiet...i still practice on that kit....;=)

[ March 17, 2004 09:49 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]